Beth Sarim-
Yes I agree with you wholeheartedly. That is why I suggest that people quit without a word. Let the cult learn too late what it means to be left powerless and on the wrong side of charges of human rights violations.
gone for good
JoinedPosts by gone for good
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80
Quit Quietly now more than ever
by gone for good inthe amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.
- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.
make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).
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80
Quit Quietly now more than ever
by gone for good inthe amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.
- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.
make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).
-
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gone for good
Religion is a voluntary undertaking - by remaining a member you willingly choose to be governed by its' internal laws
This is the reason courts of law refuse to overturn religious judgments against members - you volunteered for this crap with your baptism.
The Randy Wall vs Watchtower 2018 case in Canada is instructional - Supreme Court Canada case 37273
.Charter of Rights and Freedoms – Religious freedom – Freedom of Association – Courts – Jurisdiction – Judicial review – How do the fundamental freedoms of religion and association protect membership decisions of religious communities and other voluntary associations from state and judicial interference – What are the boundaries between what is and is not justiciable with regard to membership and other disputes between members of voluntary associations – Whether the public law remedy of judicial review applies to membership decisions made by voluntary associations such as religious communities?
Mr. Wall was a member of the Highwood Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, an unincorporated religious association. He was disfellowshipped by a Judicial Committee of elders because he was not sufficiently repentant for two incidents of drunkenness, one of which included verbal abuse of his wife. This required Jehovah’s Witnesses, including his wife and children, to shun him. He is a real estate agent and lost congregation members and other Jehovah’s Witnesses as clients. He appealed to an Appeal Committee which upheld the disfellowship decision. The Watch Tower and Bible Tract Society of Canada decided not to overturn the decision. Mr. Wall applied for judicial review. Wilson J. conducted a hearing to determine whether the Court of Queen’s Bench of Alberta had jurisdiction to hear the application.
The supreme court refused to even do the judicial review of the lower court ruling.
What one single factor cruciified Mr. Wall? Membership in a religious organization that does hateful things.
Read lines 3 and 4 in the case overview -
What are the boundaries between what is and is not justiciable with regard to membership and other disputes between members of voluntary associations.
The word justiciable means (a state or action) subject to trial in a court of law.
If Mr. Wall had quit quietly sometime prior to his troubles, the elders would have not been able to take ecclesiastical action against him as a non-member. He may have been shunned by individuals for his conduct but he could not have been disfellowshipped.
To take ecclesiastic action against non-members would violate that persons freedom of religion - an action that could be tried in court.
Elders cannot imply that a nonmember is apostate as they don't know what you do or don't believe because they no longer have any right to grill a non-member - nor should you tell them if they ask - nothing- they are no longer your elders.
For them to even encourage others to shun a non-member would certainly violate your new freedoms of religion and association - both justicial actions
Can you imagine the dissention this action could cause in a congregation - not knowing who had already claimed their freedom by private document and the absurd situation of those same people still freely associating with family and friends as simply regular 'visitors' to the hall? and the elders powerless to do anything lest they commit a justiciable action?
Happily, the same separation of state and religion that gives cults limitless powers over their membership also supports those who exercise their right to freedom of religion anytime anywhere, for any reason. One quarter of the US electoral population is now "unaffiliated" religiously. Many have happily escaped the JWs.
Quit quietly now and never worry about a judicial committee again
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80
Quit Quietly now more than ever
by gone for good inthe amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.
- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.
make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).
-
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gone for good
Beth Sarim -
Beth said "Actually, you don't owe anyone, anything!"
What do you mean by this?
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80
Quit Quietly now more than ever
by gone for good inthe amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.
- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.
make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).
-
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gone for good
Sea Breeze -
The topic was really started to suggest how people can escape from cults by exercising whatever human rights guarantees that are likely written right into their states' laws.
Please don't use this thread to preach from the same bag of crazy from which so many wish to escape.
I don't go to he hall to quibble over scripture, I go to see if my grandkids are still alive.
This information and encouragement to act courageously is aimed at the growing multitude who no longer care what crap a doomed cult preaches or practices. They just WANT OUT.
The internet is full of young people fed up with god-damaged parents inflicting their demented world views as a guide to their futures. The views of cartoon idiots like Losch, Lett and Morris are irrelevant in any modern young persons' quest for happiness or success.
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80
Quit Quietly now more than ever
by gone for good inthe amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.
- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.
make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).
-
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gone for good
Sigfrid Mallozzi -
Notarizing is good as it makes the date of your emancipation indisputable.
After this date the elders no longer have ecclesiastic authority.
It is unnecessary (and unwise) to provide your reasons for your decision as to do so will provide a platform for elders discussion which you want no part of.
As their own publications state - you are welcome, sit where you like and, as human rights legislation states you can talk to whom you wish about whatever you wish.
No need to appear to be invisible- stand up for your rights.
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80
Quit Quietly now more than ever
by gone for good inthe amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.
- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.
make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).
-
-
gone for good
Anna Marina -
I am sorry for appearing to demean your interests in Biblical history. I too have spent many hours researching the same fascinating stories.
I was hoping to clarify to Sea Breeze that the real issue with religion is not the truthfulness of scripture or myriad doctrines derived from them.
The real issue and the Achilles' heel of damaging cults will be their disregard for the modern and just basic human rights of their own members and especially those who choose to be no longer so.
Modern courts care deeply about such issues and it is these issues which will bring to heel these greedy, hate-filled cults, not their theology or lack thereof.
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80
Quit Quietly now more than ever
by gone for good inthe amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.
- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.
make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).
-
-
gone for good
Phizzy-
Thanks for your comments.
Many who wish to free themselves of the JW religion still wish to exercise their legal right to associate with family and loved ones who are members.
Info Sekta made the case clear that to forbid the free association of and suppress the natural affections and protections of the nuclear family is a violation of basic Human Rights.
Justice and human rights are the issue - don't be sidetracked by cult-speak.
.Disassociation is an intentionally loaded term that should never be used in your freedom letter. Elders instantly conflate any use of the term with apostasy requiring nosy questions.
Apostasy is not a crime, but a basic human right, and never stray from the goal to maintain association with loved ones as a free person yourself.
The letter pre-empts the elders' ecclesiastic authority. They cannot convene a judicial committee because you are not a member. You have a document proving that defining point.
Your letter should also rescind any documents you may have signed allowing the collection and use of personal information (remember foolishly signing that?) and specifically mention that to have your name or religious status read or published by any congregation will be pursued legally a violation of your personal privacy.
As Phizzys friend the elder said "So there was nothing we could do."
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80
Quit Quietly now more than ever
by gone for good inthe amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.
- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.
make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).
-
-
gone for good
Sea Breeze -
Thank you for agreeing "..that denying religious freedom will lead to their undoing."
Exercising rights by personal application moves a right from a mere possibility to the harsh reality of a legal contest.
This is where litigious fundamentalist religions will lose to the free will of "dropouts" as the Swiss Court refers to leavers.
A few small victories in local courts against local congregations and the WT goose will be cooked by precedent, and the floodgates will be opened.
This is exactly the reason that you will never hear the term "religious freedom" at a kingdom hall, mosque, LDS temple etc.
BTW, all religions are grounded in deception with the legal freedom granted for people to willfully subject themselves to whatever brand of nonsense they wish to fund or give ecclesiastical authority to.
No court cares about the truthfulness of what you choose to believe or not believe.
Folks like Anna Marina can waste their entire lives researching dates and events related to Nebuchadnezzar etc. but no court will ever care. Nor does the WT care as long as the tax-free donations keep coming.
Religion is the worlds oldest and most lucrative scam
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80
Quit Quietly now more than ever
by gone for good inthe amazing exoneration of info sekta in swiss court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.. never write a letter of disassociation.
- no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders.
make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the jw religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the jw kind).
-
-
gone for good
The amazing exoneration of Info Sekta in Swiss Court has finally reinforced the proper way to exit an abusive cult.
NEVER write a letter of disassociation. - no need to invoke shepherding or judicial action from elders
Make a written, dated statement of your free-will choice to have abandoned the JW religion - secure this document with a friend -a trusted friend (not the JW kind). This document is your proof of having exercised your right to freedom of religion - a right guaranteed you by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights - Article 18.
As of the date on your document, you are free - it's that simple - all that baptism/ dedication/ service claptrap - gone!
You hold the winning card as the date on that document disqualifies you from judicial action since you are no longer a member and willing membership is a prerequisite to a life of JW abuse and manipulation.
Want to make a JW squirm? - ask them what they teach about freedom of religion. As the swiss Court judgment confirms JWs simply do not promote nor practice religious freedom.
I believe this will become the issue that undoes them - a modern legal/ethical concept that their primitive theocracy cannot accommodate
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13
Fading with Confidence
by gone for good inabandoning a damaging cult is not a crime, in fact it might be viewed as a moral imperative given the levels of abuse awaiting those surrendering to its teachings and worse –its "ecclesiastic authority".. it has always seemed counter productive to inform potential enemies when your life´s goals now conflict with their rigid agendas.
disassociation letters and manifestos may be cathartic in the writing, but the outcome is a 100% certainty because of the inflexibility and lack of caring by the very group it is delivered to.. .
"fading" from under "high control" seems an oxymoronic risk at best, and currently faders walk on eggshells and look over their shoulders for years during and after the attempt - fearful that the price of their freedom will be the destruction of their friendships and family ties.. perhaps a peculiar additional preparation to a fade can reverse the balance of power – and high control cults are all about power.. .. bear in mind: - .
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Freddo-
They can't disfellowship a non- member as they only maintain ecclesiastic authority with voluntary consent from their membership.
By filing the date at which time you ceased membership, their hands are tied. They can't subject a non-member to a judicial hearing and they would violate your privacy rights by ever announcing your name and religious affiliation/status from their platform.